Voice Over: Welcome to the Longevity Formula with Dr. Brandon Crawford. Let's explore the new era of wellness.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Longevity Formula. I'm your host, Dr. Brandon Crawford. Today, I'm sitting down with Chris Burres. He is an engineer. He's a resea- can I call you a researcher? Yeah. I mean, you've got some really cool stuff.

Okay. Yeah. Researcher, he's an entrepreneur. He's a, a founder of My Vital C, which we're going to get into what the heck is that. And today we're going to be focusing on a Nobel Prize-winning substance. The substance is referred to as ESS60, and it has a very interesting name. I'll let you pronounce it later, right?

Mm-hmm. Okay. So, but there's a lot of fun facts about this, and there's some reasons that maybe everyone listening should actually be using this substance in their everyday health and wellness journey. So Chris, thank you so much for joining us today.

Chris Burres: Dr. Crawford, thank you so much for having me. I am excited.

Usually, I'm doing podcasts, I'm in a lab coat, 'cause I'm at my lab. So yes, I'm absolutely a researcher, so it's k- fun to be out in normal clothes.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: There you go. And this, the, this is my normal clothes day too. So I'm usually in more clinical attire. Mm. So which is actually more comfortable than this, but that's okay.

That's usually how that works. Right? All right. So, first of all, thanks for driving in. I really appreciate doing this in person, so I really appreciate your time. So first of all, I am curious, so you're an engineer by trade. Ooh- tell me about yourself and how in the world did you get into this space?

Chris Burres: Yeah. So the, the engineer by trade is a, is an important piece of the study o- of the story. So I, I knew from a very young age that I was gonna be an entrepreneur. I just had zero doubts about it. And so when it came time to go to college, my dad actually was in the Air Force, so we moved every two years, but I got...

He got a second civilian job in Houston. And so it was time to go to college. I applied to the University of Houston. And what does somebody who knows they're gonna be an entrepreneur go to study, right? And actually, I, I did write a book, Live Longer and Better, and when I was researching that, at the time that I started college there was only one entrepreneurial class in the country.

So there was no course of study, right? Now, you have all sorts of courses of study. And, and today I don't even know that I would go down those courses of study, 'cause my logic was, "I'm good in math, I'm good in science. What's the fastest way to the highest salary so I would have money to invest in a business that I would be the entrepreneur for?"

Yeah. Right? And a couple things went wrong with that plan. You know, plans often don't go the way they're planned.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: You don't say.

Chris Burres: One of them was it took me longer than four years to graduate. I did graduate with a minor in computer science and a minor in math, but it took me six years. And the other thing is I actually started the company before I even graduated from college And the way that worked is my business partner, now for 34 years, Robert, was working at the Texas Center for Superconductivity.

So this is this is a, a- an organization housed inside of the University of Houston campus. Go Coogs. We're, we are in Texas. And, and he was separating this newly discovered molecule, right? So this is the model of the molecule if you're- That's

Dr. Brandon Crawford: the soccer ball.

Chris Burres: I'm holding up a model that looks like a soccer ball, where the lines on the soccer ball represent the bonds between the carbon atoms. So the molecule had recently been discovered in 1985 at Rice University, also in Houston.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely.

Chris Burres: And the three scientists who discovered it went on to win the Nobel Prize, but before that happened, my business partner, Robert, was actually separating that material at the Texas Center for Superconductivity.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's interesting. Okay.

Chris Burres: Yes.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah.

Chris Burres: And one day, Dr. Paul Chu, so h- he's super fam- You've never heard of him, but he's super famous in the superconductivity world. Okay. In fact, we called the building on the University of Houston camp- campus Chu's Castle- ... because it was made because of his fame, right?

Nice. So Dr. Chu comes in one day and says, "Hey, you guys are young kids. This molecule is selling for $6,000 a gram."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh my gosh. "

Chris Burres: You should go start a business." And I joke, Robert is from an entrepreneurial background, and I joke he did that, you know, back of the napkin calculation, which was literally one line, $6,000 a gram.

And then he was off, you know, building the equipment to to manufacture this. I'm studying mechanical engineering. This material, first, it's naturally occurring, so I think that's really important. Okay. Yeah. A lot of people are interested, "Hey, I would like something that's natural." Yes. And, and basically, if you collect the soot from a candle flame, so, like, that deep, dark soot that you would collect, has parts per million or parts per billion of this ESS60 molecule in it.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So I could lick a candle.

Chris Burres: Yeah. You could just breathe in

Dr. Brandon Crawford: candle flame. We're not advising that, by the way. Yeah.

Chris Burres: Please. Not medical advice. So it's naturally occurring, but to make appreciable quantities of it, the best way is to vaporize graphite- And graphite turns out is the one of the hardest materials on the planet- Mm-hmm

to vaporize. Mm-hmm. You actually need local t- so it's two rods pointing towards each other. You need local temperatures of the sun to vaporize this graphite. So you have a, an immense amount of heat. It also needs to be in a inner environment, so devoid of oxygen and at a slight vacuum, right? So these are all, like, really fun challenges that an engineer faces.

So they brought me on to help with this design and with the drawings and, you know, we started delivering the material in 1991, a full five years before they were awarded the Nobel Prize.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Wow, okay.

Chris Burres: We are in fact the oldest and longest manufacturer and distributor of this molecule on the planet. I'm not a very braggadocious person, but I think this is as far as I'll go.

Most of it is like, I could have done things smarter. But it's not unreasonable to suggest that because we were delivering commercial quantities of this material, of this carbon nanomaterial, to research institutions around the world, scientists could get their hands on it. They could do experiments with it, and that's why these three scientists won the Nobel Prize, or at least

affected the- timing of when they won the award. And, and so you might ask why did this molecule w- you know, why did the discoverers win the Nobel Prize? Molecules, I don't know if you know, can't win Nobel Prizes, like, that- Sure ... as it turns out.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. I, I misstated that. Yes, you're right. You're

Chris Burres: right.

No, I, I say it the same way. The molecule, the way I describe it, it performs as well or better than the current best material in almost every application. So it makes better inks, better batteries, better tires, better photocells, and this is like, this is a health podcast. Like, what is he saying? Inks, batteries, tires, and photocells.

Probably nobody out there woke up today and thought, "I wonder what part of my car battery I should be consuming on a daily basis- Right ... for my health." And then the story interestingly gets a little bit worse first. So one of the shapes on the exterior of this cage- is the same as benzene, and it actually occurs 20 times on the exterior of this cage.

And benzene is very important. We don't have modern society without benzene. Mm. A little evidence of that, if you just, like, this whole model is plastic. Sure, yeah. The foundational molecule of plastic is the benzene ring. Mm-hmm. Many medications, including aspirin, the benzene ring. But benzene when it's on its own is known to be toxic and known to be carcinogenic.

And because this ESS60 molecule had 20 of these shapes, again, not formula, they thought it would be toxic. Yeah. They put it in a toxicity study, and this is where things start changing for the better. Instead of being toxic, the test subjects that they gave it to, in this case it was Wistar rats, lived 90% longer than the control group.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's outstanding.

Chris Burres: Yeah. It's- Ne-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: never seen anything do that before, right?

Chris Burres: Yeah. I

Dr. Brandon Crawford: mean- No,

Chris Burres: it's the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history, peer-reviewed, published research, and I'm very proud to share our lab provided the material and our lab is mentioned in that original study, and that's why we're here today, that study.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's amazing. Okay, so you're clearly the pioneer, and I didn't even realize that your work actually began before that Nobel Prize, which is rather fascinating, and I love the argument of we're part of the reason. I mean, that- Potentially ... that makes sense ... like, like it's not unreasonable to think that.

That makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. So this happened back in 2012. Yep. We saw this dramatic life extension. Why doesn't everyone and their dog know about this and are using it?

Chris Burres: Well, I think the short answer is intellectual property. Okay. Right? So discovered in '85. Then you're all the way down to a- up to 2012- Mm-hmm

uh, when they finally kind of find this specific... by the way, they theorized that there were medical applications, and we'll get- Mm. Mm ... you'll love this. This is super geeky. So it turns out that this... So there is a new symbol in chemistry because of this ESS60 molecule. Really? Right? Because this molecule is big enough for any atom on the periodic chart to fit inside of it.

Hmm. And so you know the @ symbol, right, from our- Yeah ... email addresses. So you say this molecule lanthanum@, right? C60 is the chemical formula for this. Lanthanum@C60 means lanthanum trapped inside of it.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh, very cool.

Chris Burres: So not covalently or ionically bonded with it on the exterior, but physically trapped inside of it.

And it turns out that all the wet chemistry that works on the benzene ring, right, the foundation of everything works on the exterior of this cage. So the concept was could we wrap a radioactive atom, like trap it, and then do wet chemistry on the exterior so that it would attach to a cancer cell and deliver a radioactive p- payload directly to an individual cancer cell?

In the realm of possibility, absolutely, right? Extremely hard. We've ma- those are called endofullerenes, so- Mm-hmm ... a fullerene, that's kind of the general name of this molecule. Yeah. It, it, it's, it means a, you know, particular atom trapped inside of it. D- we've made those. They're not easy. They're not easy to make.

They're not easy to characterize, like all sorts of challenges. But so they thought that would be the first application, and then when this study comes out, you know, that's the first time. Now, when that comes out there's no opportunity for intellectual property, right? So, so the people who would have...

I mean, w- w- I'll be sharing testimonials today, and they're, some of them are knock-your-socks-off testimonials. Those are the kinds of things that you know, a big pharma company would go, "Oh, we should look at this," except there's no room for intellectual property to protect it. Yeah. And so they were like, "We should, but we're not going to."

But we're not, yeah. Yeah. And so that's kind of left out. I'm excited. We're, we're working to start, and we've already started one but to start four clinical trials this year. We're we are a very weird supplement company in the best possible way, which is we continue to do research. Most don't. And we also continue to publish.

We published in 2024. 2025, we'll be publishing this year, and then starting, hopefully, floor, four clinical trials.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's I applaud that. I mean, yes, the, owning a laser company, and I'm currently designing a, a FDA clinical human trial and looking at lining up two additional trials after that. And, you know, th- they're asking me, like, "Why are you spending all this money?

Why are you doing this? And that's not going to, you know, do X, Y, or Z for your business." I'm like, "But it's going to propagate the industry. We're going to actually enhance outcomes. We're going to..." So the pursuit is what matters, and look, th- the money will come after that. Yeah. I mean, that's not the primary goal here.

We're trying to help people and, and make life better. It's very interesting what you're talking about how you can trap, potentially trap molecules. Me and one of my colleagues actually had a similar concept where we do own IP. It's not fully secured yet, so I can't openly discuss about it, but we were going to do a similar concept using lasers and different substances.

So I've actually looked at similar models not just for cancer although that was in the model. Hmm. And that was one of the most interesting things I've ever looked at, how you can be so specific and targeted with a substance. And there, there is some studies that have gone on in the oncology world, and I've actually spoken to those researchers about what they're doing.

So do you think you as a company, do y'all want to pursue delivery methods? with this technology? Is that something that you're looking at?

Chris Burres: So, it, it, it's not, I won't say it's on our radar, right? It's not, like, it's not something that, that we won't look at. I mean, really the first step is, like, just make more people aware of it.

Sure. You know, you go to a biohacking conference, and maybe 30% of the people have known of this molecule. Mm. You step outside that door, it's, you know- Nobody ... 0.0001. And, you know, we're already delivering so much value, right? We're doing this headache study. We're doing an HSCRP, right? High sensitivity C-reactive protein associated with cardiovascular diseases and cancers and overall inflammation.

And then we're doing the sleep study, and then we're actually doing a, this is just to throw in something fun, a, a wrinkle and age pots, spot study for our for yeah. It's natural. Shouldn't you do that at- Yeah ... right after the HSCRP study? There you go. So, so we're excited about that. There's so much value that we think this molecule's already delivering.

Yeah. Like, step one should just be make more people aware of it. That makes sense. And, you know, in that context, thank you very much for, for having me. I do... You know, you mentioned lasers. I wanted to d- so the backstory of this, like so many things, right? Would it surprise you if I told you the, the guys who won the Nobel Prize actually didn't discover this molecule?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: No, that doesn't surprise me at all.

Chris Burres: Right? Like, that's kind of how grad students- Yeah, exactly ... it works. It's super fascinating. So one of them that did win it is a, and, and probably deserved it in, in, they all deserved it in some context, but the real discoverers, w- you'll hear here in a second, are, are not them.

Sir Harold Kroto is an astrophysicist- Mm-hmm ... and was looking into space, and there was a spectrum that he was like, "I don't know what that is." And he theorized that it would be carbon. And at Rice University, Dr. Richard Smalley had this amazing piece of equipment that involved a laser. That's what kind of reminded me.

Basically, you could put a sample, shine a laser at it. An inert puff of gas would take what you know, what came off of that- Mm-hmm ... that vapor in directly into a mass spec, so you could see exactly what it was. So Sir Harold Kroto comes over, and he goes, "Doc- Dr. Smalley, you, you should put carbon in here."

And literally Smalley goes like, "I'm not... Carbon's boring. Why would I put- ... I'm doing sexy things like titanium and exotic alloys. Why would I put boring carbon in here?" So he goes away, like, rebuked, comes back again, asks again, gets rebuked again, goes away. So Sir Harold Kroto, and this is over, you know, one and a half years or so, comes back a third time.

And you would think this is where he says yes. Nope. Rebuked again. But one of the grad students grabs Sir Harold. He's Sir, by the way, because of the Nobel Prize, right? Mm. So Sir Harold Kroto and says, "Listen, I'm coming in over the weekend. I'll throw your boring old carbon in here." And he does, and he tweaks the equipment, and to notice a spike at 60 and a much smaller spike at 70.

What they thought they were making was graphene sheets, right? Just flat sheets of graphene. Mm-hmm. Right? So graphite, but only one layer. And why would you have a preponderance of 60 versus 59 or 61 if it's just a flat sheet- Sure ... or 70 versus, you know, 69 or 71? And so they go like, "This must mean something," and they finally...

It's a kind of interesting stories from the Houston Chronicle of, like, putting all the pieces together, and then the ball drops, and it bounces, and this kind of eureka moment. But it was the grad students. It actually wasn't the-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, that- ... the professor ... that doesn't surprise me at all. It, I, I actually did not do a study with a university because of their, you know, if you discover something, they have a stake- They own it

to the IP.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And then that's a whole negotiation process. So I'm assuming Rice still owns some type of-

Chris Burres: Well, it, it's expired.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay. Right? Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that was- 'Cause it

Chris Burres: was

Dr. Brandon Crawford: so

Chris Burres: long ago ... that was '

Dr. Brandon Crawford: 85. Yeah, that was

Chris Burres: 40

Dr. Brandon Crawford: years ago.

Chris Burres: Yeah. No. It, it, that's- 41 years ago ... that's long expired. Okay. And then it was actually a, a group, Huffman-Kratzschmar, who came up with the, the, the, the, the vaporized graphite rods technique.

Okay. The Huffman-Kratzschmar technique. That's also expired. Like, there's- Gotcha ... there's just no IP here. Yeah. And, and that's why there's gonna be nobody putting big money behind it.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Makes

Chris Burres: sense. Ex- I consider what I'm putting in it big money, but- Of course ... but- Of course ... but, you know, big pharma- Yeah ... we like to, you know.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So-

Chris Burres: That's the coffee budget. I don't know.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right? Yeah. The, that reminds me of did you see Ford v Ferrari?

Chris Burres: Yes.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Yeah. When Ford made the comment, "We spend more on toilet paper than Ferrari does to build their cars," or, you know- ... it's like, yeah, I know. I'd rather own a Ferrari, but, you know.

Yes. I've, but I have Fords, so- Yeah ... there you go. Okay. So, tell me the difference between ES60, ESS60, and C60.

Chris Burres: Yeah. The, the way we picture it is that C60 is for industrial purposes, right? Okay. So that inks batteries, tires, photo cells. And there is peer-reviewed published research that shows if you improperly process it, it's harmful.

Mm. ESS60 is C60 that's been processed for human and pets. Okay. And really what that involves, in, in order to manufacture this, you do need some polar solvents that you would not want to ingest ever. And you've gotta make sure you get rid of them. Now, by the way, there's a lot of things that are in our food supply that use polar solvents- Yeah

to you know, a lot of plant extracts, right? Hexane is involved in that process. So we kn- we know how to manage these. These are not unmanageable situations. But you wanna make sure that it is managed properly. Yes. And, and ESS60. The, the other reason is we looked at the landscape. Well, well, I'll, I'll tell this, I'll tell this story 'cause it's kind of, this is kind of fun.

So this study came out in 2012 in mid-2013, we started getting phone calls from this crazy, wacky group of people called biohackers, right? Which, which I can say affectionately- Yeah ... 'cause I, I am now one. I agree. Yeah. Right? And they were like, "How much should we consume?" And what my business partner Robert and I heard was, "Hey, that stuff that you sell to research institutions around the world to put into inks, batteries, tires, and photocells- Mm-hmm

how much of that stuff should we be consuming?" Right. And we thought zero. Right. Right? We actually added not for human consumption to our labeling in mid-2013. So from 1991 all the way to mid-2013, no need, 'cause nobody was consuming it. Mm-hmm. And, and I wanna be clear, the literature showed it to be safe.

Yeah. Right? Including this, you know, 90% extension of life. Right. Like, that's pretty safe.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. Well, I mean, the rat study was trying to find the toxicity level.

Chris Burres: Exactly.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: A- and I'm assuming there's no LD1, LD50 established, the lethal dose of one or the lethal dose of 50%. So but rather you found that, oh no, it didn't, there's no toxicity level, but actually it extended life by.

So it's just the opposite.

Chris Burres: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay.

Chris Burres: So, but still, we're conser- you know, when we have our conservative carbon nanomaterials science hats on, not for human consumption. Now, this turned into two to three times a week, we're getting phone calls again from the crazy wacky group of biohackers, "Hey, Chris, I gotta share with you, my knee pain is gone."

Yeah. "Hey, Joe, you mean the knee pain of your rat?" 'Cause it literally says not for human consumption on the- Yeah ... on the labeling. Exactly. And Joe goes, "Yeah. Hey, if my rat weighs 275 pounds and does HIIT training on Wednesdays- ... and Fridays, should I, I mean, should my rat take some?" So we, we did know what was going on.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I laugh because I know these conversations. Right? It's like, "What's the dose I should take?" "None." "Great. I'm gonna, like, take five times- ... what, you know, I'm getting in the bottle and I'll report back. Don't worry." The... I love the biohackers. Like, again, I'm part of the crowd. It's all good. But the mindset, that's the mindset.

Yeah. It's like, "How much should I take?" "You shouldn't take it." "Great. I'll report back in a month."

Chris Burres: Yeah. Exactly ... when I do HIIT training? And so every quarter, my business partner, Robert, and I are, are going in and saying, "Do we wanna be in the supplement space?" And this is certainly fits in the category of like, meh, if we were a little smarter, maybe we would've jumped in a little bit earlier.

So, so 2000, mid 2013, not for human consumption. We're getting these crazy wacky phone calls. Every quarter we're like, you know, the supplement... I think it's generous to say that the supplement industry is challenged. Like, that- Yeah ... that's a generous way to put it. Yeah. And so, we just didn't want to get into the industry.

And in the middle of this timeframe, it actually kinda changed at the latter part of 2017. But in the middle of this, I found a peer-reviewed published research paper that showed that 50% of the supplements this group had purchased off the market didn't have in them what they said they had in them.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Shocking.

Chris Burres: Right, right? So that's a... We can call that a challenged market, right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Chris Burres: So, every quarter, we're getting together, "No, we don't wanna be in this industry." Finally, at the latter part of 2017 a guy with a big YouTube following, that's how everything changes these days- Of course

right? Starts talking about all the benefits he's getting taking it on a daily basis, and our phone went from two to three calls per week to 10 calls a day. So now in that quarterly meeting, we're like, "Well, this is a bigger opportunity than we realized." Mm-hmm. And I looked back, or we looked back at that paper where 50% of the supplements on the market don't have in them what they say they have in them.

We're the... Like, that's gonna happen in this industry, right? Mm. We're the oldest and longest manufacturer and distributor of the molecule on the planet. So we really kind of felt obligated to get in the industry. And, and we knew we could deliver a high-quality product. And so we asked ourselves two questions.

So the first question is the moral question, are we comfortable selling it? I take it, my wife takes it, everybody on our team takes it. Yeah. By the way, it's not a ... You don't have to. Yeah. You know, you don't clock in and then take your shot of my vitamin

Dr. Brandon Crawford: C. Right. It's my, my staff with their lasers. "You gotta use your laser today."

Chris Burres: Use your laser. Walk through this laser- Right. There you go ... compartment. Decontam- decontamination compartment. And so that was one, and then the next is legal, right? So you got the FDA, which you're apparently extremely familiar with- Oh, yeah ... and, and the FTC. You gotta cross the Ts, you gotta dot the Is.

And, and so 2018 was when we sh- really started bringing this market. It's also when my hat really changed, right? So still the chief scientist of a carbon nanomaterial manufacturing business, but now also the chief scientist of a supplement that's on the market, and that is literally responsible for the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history.

And I know you asked me a question and I went down a rabbit hole, and then I forgot the q- the- That's

Dr. Brandon Crawford: fine ... rabbit hole. We, we started on the differences between the ESS60 versus the Carbon 60, and I think you explained it relatively well. M- what I'm sitting here thinking is so if we see this huge life extension in rats, right?

Mm-hmm. And we have all of these anecdotal reports very, very positive outcomes, we're, you know, lots of great data. And, and I, I, I like anecdotal reports because it's, it's real.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: These are real people taking it, giving us real results, and if people were getting harmed, you would be getting those phone calls.

Chris Burres: Yep.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And, like, that's just how humans work. Yep. That's how the market works. We're in a capitalist system, kinda.

Chris Burres: You would get those calls first.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Exactly.

Chris Burres: Right? Like, oh, this XYZ, I s- I ... Now I'm sneezing three times a day. Exactly. Like, you would get that before you would get- Exactly ... you know- Yeah ... the, the positive reports.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So how in the world from a chemical or a, or a physiological side, how is this actually having an impact in, in driving those results?

Chris Burres: So this picks up perfectly. As I'm kind of stepping into this role as the chief scientist of a health and wellness, of a supplement company I'm ... Like, my first responsibility is h- why are we d- like, why did Joe's knee pain go away?

By the way, I'll, I'll throw out this. Th- th- this product has not have been evaluated by the FDA. It is not intended to treat, diagnose, cure, or prevent any disease. Mm-hmm. When I s- Which means I

Dr. Brandon Crawford: like it

Chris Burres: better. You know, it, it, it's interesting. I, I love that you like anecdotes. I'm still apprehensive, right?

Even though they're beneficial to me, for we're just trained, like even the general population- Mm-hmm ... not just scientists, are trained anecdotes don't matter, which is wrong.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It's totally wrong.

Chris Burres: It's totally wrong. Like, the- Yeah ... you know, the way ... They're, they are the foundational step in the scientific process.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah.

Chris Burres: I noticed something. Yes. Right? That's an anecdote, and now I test something- Correct ... to see if it's ... Right. Yes. So th- they are-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And just as a clinical nuance, right? Because I'm a, I'm a clinician at heart- that's where you find the nuance in medicine- Mm-hmm ... is in the anecdotes, right? We, we can have the objective data, and that...

I'm not saying we don't need it. We absolutely need it, and we start with that. But then we get the feedback from the patient. What is that? That's anecdotal evidence. Okay, let's adjust this, let's do this, let's change this. Mm. That's where you really start to dial in. And again, the anecdotes matter because you're right, those are the...

That's what's gonna come first if someone gets injured. You know? It, it's really the people that are doing well that are not really reaching out.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: You know? So it... All that kind of stuff, if someone does think that doesn't matter, I'm sorry, they're wrong.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's absolutely impactful, and that is so impactful to a clinician.

We have to listen to that. Now, it is a incumbent upon me to then objectify that data. And again, that's why we're doing what we're doing because we're getting, you know, the anecdotal evidence back about our lasers. You know, we've had people call and tell us that, "Hey, I had this ulcerative colitis situation for years and years, and I did all the functional medicine, I did all these tests and all these things.

I used your laser three times, and it cleared it up."

Chris Burres: Wow.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And I'm like, "Th- that's a big data point." Yeah. And then I heard the same story again, and I'm like, "Okay, let's do something here." Right? So I wouldn't go that direction if I didn't get that data. Yeah. So it, it very much matters. Sorry for the sidebar.

Chris Burres: Well, no, I, I like it 'cause y- you probably have... My, my reaction for the first... So we bring this product to market really in 2018, and, you know, we're getting just these ama- like, just knock your socks off testimonials. It's just crazy h- the, the, the testimonials. And my first thought was, like, well, if it was Dr.

Crawford sharing it with me, like, I believe this happened to you. As a scientist, I don't know what to do with it, right? Yes. Yours is a little different 'cause it's in practice, and so now you can say, like, "Oh," like, "let's see if we can address that same issue with the next person who comes in the door."

Mm-hmm. I have a supplement on the market. I'm like, I have a new testimonial. Right. Yay. Can't use it, right? Right. You can't, can't make claims about things that have actually happened in, in, to some degree, right? If they're, if they're disease-related which I, I think is the right approach, by the way.

Mm. I, I really do think that's the, the right approach that the FDA has but y- yeah. So, anecdotes are coming in, and at some point I'm like, "Well, I just believe them," right? Yeah. Like, and now now, hey, you know, w- years later w- let's fund clinical trials. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's the right thing to do.

And

Dr. Brandon Crawford: it's not cheap.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It's not easy.

Chris Burres: It's, it's not easy.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: especially for I would assume it would be a de novo pathway. You there's no predicate here. I mean, you, you would have to... I mean, you're, we're talking about a lot of money, time, energy, effort.

Chris Burres: Yeah. W- we did find an organization and and I m- may share this with you 'cause it's kind of fascinating that it's significantly more affordable.

So anyway, w- we can- Very cool ... we can talk about that. Okay. So most consistent testimonial with our product is people take it in the morning, they report mental focus and energy during the day, and then better sleep that night. And if you just... So, so a couple really valuable things there. One, taking it in the morning and having a positive impact on sleep.

I've been asking people for eight years now, like, "What else can you take in the morning and positively impact sleep?" You could certainly exercise in the morning- Mm-hmm ... right? And that would positively impact your sleep. You could get some exposure to the sun and get your circadian rhythm- Yeah ... in line with the rising and falling of the sun, and that would help your sleep.

Mm-hmm. But I'm not aware of anything that, anything else that you can take in the morning, positively impact sleep. The other thing is, it's sleep, right? Sleep, good for your mental, physical, and emotional wellbeing. Yeah. So that was the first place that we ha- hung our hat, was like, "Well, it's helping with sleep," right?

Okay. But then you gotta keep digging deeper. The next thing I looked at was, okay, these rats live 90% longer than the control group. What's driving that? And so you kind of look at the scientific community, and they don't all agree, but they tend to think of aging as an oxidation and an inflammation process, right?

And in terms of an antioxidant, there's an ad hoc study showing our product to be 172 times more powerful than vitamin C. There's peer-reviewed published research showing it to be 125 times more powerful than vitamin C. So we're in Texas, we put a big old check mark on, on antioxidant. That's right. When it comes to inflammation, you're probably like, "I wonder how he's gonna talk about inflammation," 'cause the FDA has particular considerations, which is they equate conversations of inflammation with the diseases of inflammation, which are also the diseases of aging, right?

Arthritis, Alzheimer's, cardiovascular disease, cancers. So if I come on your show and I say, "Hey, we address inflammation," the FDA hears me claiming we cure cancer, we cure cardiovascular. Right. We are not making those claims. There is so much research that would need to go into, and again, very expensive research to go in to make those very particular claims.

What the FDA does allow us to say is that we address inflammation as it relates to exercise, right? Okay. So you've had a tough workout one day, maybe just walked farther than you normally do, and felt that sense of inflammation. The FDA allows us to say that we address that type of inflammation. I don't know, so a little old check bar.

So

Dr. Brandon Crawford: like oxidative stress?

Chris Burres: Yes.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay.

Chris Burres: Yeah. And, and this is where, okay, but, but still we still, like you would want to know the mechanism that's even- Yes ... behind this, right? So you're like, "Chris, unfold this." And this is where we get to the BOSS theory. So BOSS stands for buffering oxidative stress system, right?

The foundations of this theory, there is peer-reviewed published research that show this ESS60 molecule in the mitochondria. There is an awareness even back in the '90s when it was discovered that this molecule can hold up to six negatively charged particles on the exterior of this cage. So what that translates into, I know you know this, super quick refresher, mitochondria, powerhouse of every cell.

Mm-hmm. There's between 50 and 5,000 mitochondria in every cell in your body, except for your blood cells, right, which have zero- Yes ... and your brain and neurons, which have two million. I, like you, that you live this, right? It is amazing how much energy our nervous system uses- Absolutely ... relative, relative to everything else.

Like every power source, there's a negative byproduct. You think about your car going down the road, its exhaust. You think about a power plant, there's smoke coming out of the smoke stack. In the case of mitochondria, it's reactive oxygen species. The way I picture these are like if they're left to their own devices, they're like little bumper cars running around the body, right?

And everything they smack into, they cause rust. They cause oxidative- Yeah ... stress, oxidative damage, which sounds horrible, and it is. And like all, m- so many biological systems, there's a mechanism for managing these. Internal to the mitochondria, you have the key antioxidants glutathione and melatonin as the main reactive oxygen species managers.

I do like to pause here, 'cause melatonin is the sleep hormone. Like our most consistent testimonial- Yes ... is related to sleep. There you go. So that's in a healthy mitochondria. They're all managed, and the reactive oxygen species aren't running around like little bumper cars. But what happens when you stress mitochondria?

Like anyone coming into your clinic has some level of stressed mitochondria. We all have some level of stressed mitochondria, like smoking, drinking, smog, s- your EMF, your cell phone with EMF ray. Like we just all have, in modern society, we all have- Mm-hmm ... stressed mitochondria. At this point, the mitochondria starts producing more reactive oxygen species than can be managed internally, and that's when they run around and do that damage.

Yeah. And that's where the ESS60 molecule comes in. Okay. Again, peer-reviewed published research shows it to be there. We believe it holds on to up to six of these negatively charged particles-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Mm-hmm ...

Chris Burres: so that they can't run around like little bumper cars and do damage. And then when that mitochondria can replenish the glutathione, 'cause it has methods to do this- Mm-hmm

replenish the melatonin, then they can manage them appropriately. I wanna run this this analogy by you. Do you think that all biological analogies should start with Mardi Gras?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I mean, I like where this is going.

Chris Burres: Right? So, so, I mean, a lot of biology happens at Mardi Gras, so, so why not, right? Sure. So it's, it's the end of Mardi Gras, and you have these drunk reactive oxygen species on Bourbon Street- Mm-hmm

running around causing this oxidative- Yeah ... stress, smashing windows, spray painting cars, whatever. Yeah. And you have the New Orleans Police Department, the glutathione, and the melatonin coming onto Bourbon Street, handcuffing themselves to those reactive oxygen species and getting them off of Bourbon Street.

But what does the New Orleans Police Department do when they're overwhelmed? They take those reactive oxygen species, and they stick them in a paddy wagon.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Got

Chris Burres: you. They attach them to the exterior of the ESS60 molecule. Okay. And then when they can replenish the glutathione, they can replenish the melatonin, then they can handcuff themselves to those reactive oxygen species and get them off of Bourbon Street.

I like that ... and that is why we say that the, the ESS60 molecule is the BOSS, a buffering oxidative stress system. And I think a, a reasonable way to kinda summarize this is we believe we're reducing the negative impact of stressed mitochondria.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah.

Chris Burres: And if you reduce the negative impact of stressed mitochondria,

you really should have what we have, which are head-to-toe testimonials.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. I love that analogy. My mind- Keep it? Yeah, my mind was going somewhere else- ... with Mar- Mardi Gras, but I like it. So we're improving efficiency within the mitochondria. I always talk about the mitochondria like a combustion engine.

Mm-hmm. Right? The more we use it and abuse it, the more, you know, wear and tear there is in the engine, and so this is essentially, you know, replacing the oil and changing the the timing belts and all, you know- Yeah ... a whole different thing. But I love the the concept there. That's amazing. so if this is having an impact on mitochondrial health there's huge implication with that, right?

You mentioned obviously there's a huge density in our neurology- Yeah ... in our brain and in our heart.

Chris Burres: Mm.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So me being a brain guy, right, I focus on neurological rehab, then one should be able to deduce then, okay, so if I have someone with XYZ neurological condition, this should be something that my patients should be looking into using.

And I as a clinician can make that recommendation. I know you can't- Right ... as a manufacturer. So if I have someone with autism, brain injury, pain, neurodegenerative disorder, something like this, are, is there anecdotal evidence coming in from these demographics?

Chris Burres: Our most consistent testimonial, focus and energy during the day.

I think everything you- just described would benefit from focus and energy. Also, better sleep at night. I think everyone would- benefit from that.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes.

Chris Burres: and then beyond that, there's one testimonial that springs to mind. I got this, our product over to an influencer in the UK.

She sent the video, so I'm all excited, like- ... "Hey, let me look at this video." and she starts the video off with that she's in the middle of quitting smoking. Now, I don't know about you, my parents quit smoking multiple times as I was growing up, and it never was pleasant when they were in the middle of quitting smoking.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right.

Chris Burres: My, my dad always said, you know, "Quitting's easy. It's the not starting again that's the problem."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Both my parents also smokers, both attempted to quit multiple, multiple times, yes.

Chris Burres: Yeah. They just... So I thought this video was just a waste. I wasted my time sending this product all the way to the UK. But she went on to give a pretty good testimonial, which is already valuable. But one thing that will always stick with me is she found herself having a longer fuse with her toddler.

Now, if you've ever been around, you know, a child, well, people who act like children, like

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes.

Chris Burres: You, some days you have a long fuse, and some days you have a short fuse. Yeah. The fact that she had a longer fuse I think was pretty impactful.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It really is.

Chris Burres: Yeah. So, so we, we have that type of thing. And, and again, initial days, I would have just leaned only on sleep.

But again, why better sleep? So sleep is like, we're still trying to figure out what, what sleep is. Like, sleep is incredibly complex. But you do go through between five and six different sleep cycles. Mm-hmm. And in those cycles, you're doing things like you know, repairing muscle, repairing tissue cementing memories.

You're cementing muscle memory managing emotions, right? And in my mind, this is probably, you know, super simplistic one of the things on the checklist is managing your mitochondria, right? Like cleaning up your mitochondria. And if the mitochondria is already very well managed, then there's a check, right?

Mm-hmm. It's already done, so I can spend time on other things. Yeah. And one of the testimonies might fit in here is even over the last three weeks, I've had two conversations with people like, "Yeah, I'm not sure I really noticed anything." And I was just, with both of them, I was like, "So how how are...

Are you dreaming?" boom, you know, like, y- they get big Bambi eyes. Oh, oh yeah, I've been dreaming, and one guy starts talking to me about his apocalyptic dream. Perfect. Yeah. Well, in, i- interestingly, he was actually very tranquil. Eh, it's the apocalypse. Oh, well. Right? Like, w- okay, that the- I mean, what can

Dr. Brandon Crawford: you do, right?

Chris Burres: Yeah ... you would ever want to have, not the, not the horror stories that you could. But that is something that we get. You know, not only is it a consistent testimonial, but when you can, i- in my mind, right, you're skipping past this mitochondri- not skipping it because you gotta manage it, but it's already managed- Mm-hmm

and then you can spend time on- Right ... you know, emot- emotional processing. So those- That's quite interesting ... are the kinds of things we

Dr. Brandon Crawford: hear. Yeah. I, I like that. I mean, my, you know, clinical and researcher mind starts going into, I wonder how it impacts HRV, I wonder how it impacts REM sleep, I wonder if, you know, you could see a change in brainwaves while people are sleeping or even awake.

Just some really interesting you know, directions

Chris Burres: to go in. So, so you mentioned HRV. Yeah. We are doing an HSCRP study, right? Yeah. High sensitivity C-reactive protein. And the reason we're doing that, well, one, there's already evidence in beagles of reducing HSCRP. That's peer-reviewed, published research that's already- Right

out there. But we had a- So if

Dr. Brandon Crawford: your beagle has inflammation-

Chris Burres: Yeah, yeah, if they indicate to you that they have some- ... inflammation Perfect.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes.

Chris Burres: So, as we had this Dr. Lane Young came to our booth at A4M, so the longevity- Mm-hmm ... fest in Vegas, and he shared this, and then I was like, "Dr. Young, you have to say that again while I record it," and he was a- a- amenable.

And he goes, "Chris, I don't care if you're male, female, pre-surgery, post-surgery, cardiovascular disease, otherwise healthy, your product is reducing HRV, HSCRP, sorry, HSCRP from nine," was his number "to .9 in four to eight weeks."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Four to eight weeks?

Chris Burres: That's what he said. That's why we're doing this study, right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's quite impressive.

Chris Burres: Yes. Right, so w- we'll, we'll talk about that the, the nine, right? 'Cause I had conversations with oncologists later, and the, the, what they said was, I think, pretty profound. He went on to say, "We're seeing improvements in HRV and sleep between 20 and 60%."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Wow.

Chris Burres: And w- the, like, this is the telling, like, the broad scope.

"We just believe it's something we should keep in our break room for our employees." Right? And w- nine, I later had a conversation with an oncologist, and he was like, "If you have an HSCRP of nine, we assume you have cancer until we prove otherwise," right? Like, that's how inflamed that person is. Right. And so, so yeah, that was- th- that testimony.

That's why we're doing the HSCRP, and it has, you know, in his kind of testimonial, had HRV and sleep.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's quite dramatic.

Chris Burres: A- and I'll share, this is... Y- I don't- have you played around with, like, biological age tests and done some of that? Little bit. And, a- and let's be real, I don't think they tell-

people what they think they tell people. Yeah. Right? They're r- they're a qualitative, not quantitative, right? Mm. Just because you're... Well, in one case, the, it had me at age 21 biologically, that doesn't mean I have another- Right ... 60 years. Who, who knows? Hopefully. Like, I think things are changing fast.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: There

Chris Burres: you go. Exactly. So I took, The, the first test I took was an ES- ESR, erythrocyte sedimentation rate. Yes. It's basically you take a dro- a, a, a, a drop of blood, you expose it to gravity, right, so vertically, and the rate at which the plasma separates from blood cells i- i- is an indication of how inflamed you are.

Mm-hmm. That particular test I did had me at 20-plus years younger than my chronological age, so biologically. The next one was GlycanAge. I don't know if you've looked at GlycanAge. Yes. It's looking at glycans and how they attach to blood cells, and it, you know, it has a, has a one down way path as you age.

That particular test had me 34 years younger than my chronological age. At the time it was, it had me at 21. I, I kinda joke, "Can you drink if you're a lu- younger biologically than 21?" Yeah,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: there you

Chris Burres: go. We need to see your biological ID. Right. I'm so excited about that. And then the last one, I actually not excited about the number, numbers but the direction.

So this was my DNAge. When I was 51, it had me at 59. Not happy about that. Right. I'm like, I'm doing stuff. Right. I'm taking my product. But I took it three years later, and it had me at 58. Okay. So, like, over the course of three chronological years it had me reduced by one year. Okay. Which is fantastic.

Yes. Like, like, y- you should, you know, aspire, everyone should aspire to that.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. Yeah, the biological testing tests, I'm still somewhat gingerly navigating. I mean, some of them tell me I'm three years older, some of them tell me I'm five years younger, and I'm, I'm like, "Eh."

I mean, they're all measuring something di- which I think they're all good. Yeah. Right? Because ultimately- I think

Chris Burres: there's value, yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. All these different data points are great, and it, at minimum, it gives you a baseline of something.

Chris Burres: Mm-hmm. And

Dr. Brandon Crawford: then you can see if that something changes over time.

It's just that the somethings that each test is looking at is different. Yeah. And so understanding that whenever you're doing them. And you're right, you know, it doesn't mean, "Oh, it says I'm f- I'm 21, therefore..." You know, it's like, okay. 60 more

Chris Burres: years. I'd be

Dr. Brandon Crawford: like-

Chris Burres: Yeah. Like, of course keep drinking.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Exactly. I can tear myself up more. With the information on the HSCRP and how this can really impact inflammatory- systems have you looked or heard anything about how it's influencing apolipoprotein B? Because this is kind of a stubborn one- Yeah ... for me clinically, that I have to use big guns to get it to come down very quickly.

Mm-hmm. But, and, and we want that to come down in people, 'cause it's very closely associated with cardiovascular risks. So it's, and even in myself, you know, whenever my ApoB was elevated moderately for multiple years in a row like I said, I had to use big guns. I had to use extracellular vesicles, started using stem cells, and some other strategies, and it came down.

Now it's within normal levels. But I mean, I just spent a lot of money on that. Mm-hmm. Any anecdotal evidence on ApoB?

Chris Burres: I, I haven't seen... So we've been doing some ad hoc studies, right? So we got more formal clinical trials started. We did a ad hoc study, and I can't remember the company that we bought the test, but I was like, "Hey, for an extra $20, I can get a lot more data."

We've got like, I was actually just looking at the report yesterday. We were like eight people. W- so four people have provided before and after, so th- that looks good. And we are looking at ApoB. But but I, I, d- I mean, it's only Four people- Yeah ... have given us the first result.

Mm-hmm. It's something, I was like, "Hey, if we're gonna run a test for 20 extra dollars- Yes ... like, let's look at a lot of stuff, or as much stuff as you can." You know, certainly looking forward to the day when this little Oura Ring can just tell us everything, and it's like, "Oh, my testosterone is low.

Let's- I know ... we need to make some- Yeah ... adjustment."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I'm on a wait list for a new band, and I forget the name of it. But it's supposed to measure- your cortisol levels estimated hormones. B- basically it's reading the sweat that's coming out of your skin Mm-hmm Um, again, not, don't have it yet, it's on pre-order.

And I don't know, I haven't looked at what they're valid- how they validate it- Yeah, yeah ... right? So it was just one of those impulse things. I was like, "Really? Boom." And then, you know, now I'm looking into it. You're like, "Do, do I?" What, what did I buy? I don't know. Let's figure this out. I'll figure it out when it arrives.

So it was like, but you're right, I mean, I, I mean that technology's coming. Yeah. So that'll be very interesting in, not only in research, but then, you know, clinically in your own health journey. So that's really, really exciting.

Chris Burres: I mean, yeah, you're just start talking about kind of blending a CGM, right?

Mm-hmm. Continuous glucose monitor. Yep. That's, that's looking at blood. Yeah. So like throw that in, throw, you know, throw... It's got access to everything. It's got access to all the hormones- Yep ... and everything. So, yeah it's some exciting times ahead of us.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I know. It's really interesting. So I- I'm hearing about, you know, everyone and their literal dog should be on this.

Any contraindications or anyone that should not be taking this?

Chris Burres: So at this point, we just don't, right? So, you probably know this. From the FDA perspective, this is a supplement that's on the market. We are required to report any serious adverse effects- Mm-hmm ... to the FDA. Like, that is our responsibility.

Mm-hmm. And we just haven't had to, right? So, there are tens of thousands of people taking this product. and there are no contraindications. I know there was one scientist out there who was talking about maybe if you're on blood thinners. I question his skill set. At one point, he was talking about how it was known to extend telomeres, and I was so excited.

I reached out to him, "Where's the research?" Everyone knows it. Where's the research? Come on, like it's known. Where's the research? Oh, there is none. There is none. So that same guy, right, who's talking about it extending telomeres is also talking about it you know, having a potential problem with blood thinners.

Gotcha. But and I was listening to your astaxanthin podcast that was coming in, and it was just interesting, right? 'Cause operating in the same realm, operating on the same system and he specifically talked about blood thinners. Yeah. And I was like, "Well, there could be some truth to that," but I don't know.

Other than that, you know, if you're on serious medications, you know, and hopefully they're serious if you're on them. Like, try to get off- Right, right ... of them if they're, if they are not serious. But yeah, have a conversation with your physician. But yeah, no contraindications.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's awesome.

Okay. So then here's the vial.

Chris Burres: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: All right. So how does this stuff taste?

Chris Burres: So it tastes like a high-quality extra virgin olive oil, right? Okay. So it, it will leave a peppery flavor at the back of your

Dr. Brandon Crawford: throat. Nice. So what so olive oil and ESS- 60. Yep. What else is in this?

Chris Burres: That's it.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's it?

Chris Burres: Yeah, and the best way to take this is the... Some people try and, like a ketchup pack, just turn it upside down. Turn it up. So cheers. Cheers.

We should probably patent that sound.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. So I love olive oil.

Chris Burres: Mm. give me your opinion.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's... It tastes great. I, I'm the guy that I, like I will just put olive oil on my salad or, you know, I don't eat much bread, but if I do, like I love it. When I go to Italy, I'm just in love, you know?

Yeah,

And even, you know, parts of the Middle East, the, the olive oil there is phenomenal. So it has a phenomenal taste. Thank you.

Chris Burres: Yeah,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: so of course when I hear olive oil, I think, "Okay, is this gonna taste rancid?" Yeah. You know, 'cause, 'cause I've, I've had that too, right? So how do you need to store it?

'Cause, you know, the-

Chris Burres: Just like, the olive oil on your counter, right? Okay. Like don't leave it in direct sun. Don't, you know, elevated temperatures for long periods of time. Olive oil's typically stable for three years. Mm-hmm. We put 18 months as we're actually kind of bottling our products, and there is some thought pro- evidence, it was a small piece of evidence and some thought process, that the presence of this a- a great antioxidant actually extends the life of the olive oil.

Makes sense. Yeah, so- Yeah ... and what we took was one teaspoon, right? Mm-hmm. Or five mils, that's the recommended serving. And some people, super small, one or two, 3% maybe, if they take it later in the day, they say it will interrupt their sleep. That's certainly not true for me, but I'm also the weirdo who can have a cup of coffee.

I, I know the sleep's not good, but I can go to sleep. Like there's no, there's no pro- problem falling asleep. I,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I am now there, my friend. I used to not be there.

Chris Burres: Yeah?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I am now there.

Chris Burres: Through years of perseverance-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah ... and trying. Absolutely. I have ground myself into that hole. No,

Chris Burres: I'm kidding. Yeah, and you had mentioned something that triggered something. Oh, so just the value of olive oil, right? Yeah. So pretty fascinating, in this original study, there were three groups of rats, and I, I'm gonna talk about another piece of this study too. At, at one point, my director of research came to me and said, "This could've been five separate research papers," like, like you just did so much in it.

And, a- and so there were three test groups. One group was given water, the control group. Mm-hmm. One group was given olive oil, and then the other was given olive oil with ESS60. The ones given olive oil lived 18% longer than the control group, right? Makes sense, yeah. So I love what Dr. Gundry says, the purpose of food is to get more olive oil into your mouth, right?

Yes. So like, like I think that's a, a great concept. Another piece of this story, which is- fascinating is that a typical Wistar rat lives out to 32 months and has a known amount of tumor mass in its body. Okay. The longer it lives, the more tumor mass it has in its body. Even though the MyVital C rats lived out to 62 months, none of them had any tumors, right?

Now, that's pretty phenomenal. It

Dr. Brandon Crawford: really is.

Chris Burres: And we've had people go like, "Oh, a cure for cancer." And I'm like, "No." And then I say again, "Nope." Right. Let's just be clear. There's a re- there's a big difference between dealing with a cancer that has metastasized, right? And potentially being a cancer preventative.

Yes. Right? We know things like good nutrition, good exercise- Mm ... good sleep can be cancer preventatives. I will add this. So I, I, I've, I've ... We seem to be on the same page. Petri dish study's the lowest level. I would take an anecdote over a Petri dish study- Me too ... any day. Mostly because they're still alive to give the anecdote and stick- Yeah

taking something from a Petri dish and sticking it in a live animal. But this is really telling. In a Petri dish they have cancer cells and healthy cells, and they introduce an anti-cancer agent. Basically a poison, right? You're hoping to- Mm ... poison the cancer cell before the healthy cell. In the presence of the ESS60 molecule, there was increased efficacy against the cancer cells and protective effects for the healthy cells, right?

So in the presence of ESS60, more cancer cells died, less healthy cells died. That's pretty profound. And our understanding, i- my very surface understanding, cancer uses a different energy source, right? Cancer cells use different energy source- Right. Yeah ... which is related to the mitochondria, which is where we think this is having all of the impact.

So we think something in there is going on.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's really exciting because now my mind went into, ... I was listening to a, a urologist on my drive in.

Chris Burres: And- We all were, I think.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right? And he was talking about fertility rates, and he was correlating it with, you know, microplastics and how, you know, toxic our world is becoming and whatnot.

He didn't talk about the light story. I think that there's heavy circadian mechanisms- Mm. Mm. Yeah ... that are being disrupted right now affecting fertility. But if this has a protective effect and we don't have a clear mechanism for how to effectively get microplastics out of our body perhaps this is a, a really good strategy to at least protect those healthy cells- True?

Chris Burres: Yeah. Well, y- you, you talk about kind of detoxing from things. W- a great detoxer is activated charcoal, right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes.

Chris Burres: Interesting thing about activated charcoal, it actually doesn't get into your body. It stays in your intestinal tract. Right. Right? We gave some of our raw material to the University of Houston engineering department, and they compared and contrasted it to activated charcoal, and they said it performed as, as so many things, it performed as well or better than activated charcoal.

Really? But this molecule can get into the body, right? Okay. All the way into the mitochondria. Do we

Dr. Brandon Crawford: have to worry about it stripping minerals and stuff out? I- Because that's what I worry about with activated charcoal.

Chris Burres: Yes. At this point- again, we just don't

Dr. Brandon Crawford: have any data. Well, you can't, right?

Because if you're getting these benefits of, you know, improved energy and whatnot, if you're stripping away, that's not gonna happen.

Chris Burres: Yeah, no. You're not gonna get that. Like, the, the opposite would happen- E- especially if you're taking too many. Yeah. So, I mean, it ... you should keep it on a, on a radar, but nothing is indicating that that is something that should be investigated-

further.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I love that. So okay. So biohacker question, 'cause I'm- Yeah ... I am one. So one's great. What about two? What about three? Ah. What about five?

Chris Burres: So, I love this. So I've got a testimonial. he's now a good friend of mine. his name is Anthony Kunkel. He's a two-time US ultrarunning champion, so he won a 50-mile and 100K race for the US.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Geez.

Chris Burres: Yeah. Y- y- he, he's, he's pretty amazing. My first conversation with him was fa- fascinating, right? He's a super biohacker, super analytical also, right? And he said "Hey, I was taking one serving. I didn't really notice anything." Like all good biohackers, he tripled the serving. Mm-hmm. And he said "Wow, this could be the difference between somebody having running as a hobby and running as a career."

Wow. And what he ultimately said was, "I don't believe your product speeds exercise recovery. I believe it prevents damage in the first place." And this is really before the boss theory had kind of manifested. He said, "Because on the last five miles of a 50-mile run," which is a phrase you will probably never hear again.

No,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I won't say it.

Chris Burres: It won't come out of my mouth. "Where strength and stability used to be a problem, now they're no longer a problem," right? Geez. And that fits in this model of holding on to that react... If anybody's stressing their mitochondria, it's Anthony Kunkel- Yes ... on his 50-mile, mile run. I, I have another an- analogy that I think sits i- interestingly and, and fits with Anthony.

So- Stress is actually good, right? If we don't have stress- That's how we- ... like we turn into little blobs- Yeah ... whatever. And if you want any evidence, go look at what the astronauts who just came back from the moon, circling the moon, are struggling through. I saw a video of them just struggling. Their, their health dumpster fires when they come back.

Yes. Right? Bone density is decreased, immune system is compromised. So you need stress. You need good stress. And I picture us kind of physiologically like a prairie, right? Beautiful prairie grasses and flowers, and that gentle rain is the stress you need- Mm-hmm ... in order to, for that prairie to, to to flourish.

And but what happens when you have like a deep, dark cloud pouring stress into one spot? Like, that's when you get damage, right? That's when you build that mud puddle. Mm-hmm. And that's, I kind of picture this molecule kind of between that deep, dark cloud and that prairie, right? Like a sponge collecting that stream It's important to note, if you don't take care of the cloud, the sponge eventually fills up, and then it starts pouring again, right?

Sure. So you do at some... Anthony needs to stop running at some point.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. exactly.

Chris Burres: we may not have figured out that point yet, but- Right ... and then when he does, I kind of picture, like, this is my you know, analogy, that you just squeeze this sponge across the, the prairie- Evenly squeezed ... and you haven't, right, you haven't experienced the damage, and that's what fits with his, his- Okay

description.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I like that. That's quite amazing. So how much of this do you take a day?

Chris Burres: I'm... So I actually put... We, we do have different oils. I, I don't talk about them much. We have ol- olive oil, avocado oil, and MCT oil. Okay. I'll first start here. If anybody's asking what we recommend, it's always the olive oil for two reasons.

First, we're a science-based organization. Almost all the research is on the molecule in olive oil. Okay. Next, higher concentration of the ESS60 molecule in olive oil, about .8 milligrams per milliliter in olive oil, .6 in avocado, and then .3 in MCT, so less than- Okay ... half. Cool thing about the MCT, clear liquid, right?

Mm-hmm. You pour this black carbon powder into this clear liquid, and it turns a beautiful purple color.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh, that's cool.

Chris Burres: Right? Just, just how the physics works. Yeah. So what I have every day is kind of a Bulletproof coffee thing, right? Get rid of the ghee. Mm. I don't like the flavor that much and- ... the calories.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It doesn't taste as good as that,

Chris Burres: I'll tell you that much. You... So, so, I put about a teaspoon and a half of our MCT in my coffee. While that's blending, I take about a teaspoon and a half. And then, you know, throughout the day, if I feel like you know, it's a busy day, I'm, you know, deep in documents or research or- Mm-hmm

podcasts or whatever- Mm-hmm ... then I'll, I'll take another one. When I'm, when- Yeah ... I'm at conferences, I don't know if you've ever worked a booth. Yeah. Like, working a booth is... Right. I

Dr. Brandon Crawford: hate it. So...

Chris Burres: Yeah, yeah. Y- yes. You

Dr. Brandon Crawford: get to meet a lot of people, and I love that part-

Chris Burres: Yes ...

Dr. Brandon Crawford: but it's draining.

Chris Burres: It's exhausting.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah.

Chris Burres: Yeah. Take these. Yeah. Right? So my job is to, like, "Hey, let's do- Yeah ... another shot." So I'm, I'll take somewhere between 5 and 10 on, o- on a day like that. Oh, that's awesome.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. And, and this is one teaspoon? Yes. Okay, so you're doing at least three of these a day.

Chris Burres: Yes.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Well, the, the olive oil- Yeah, I'll do, or the

Chris Burres: MCT? ... one and a half of the MCT, one and a half of the- Okay ... olive oil.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And I'm asking 'cause I'm probably gonna replicate it, so. Yeah,

Chris Burres: yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So I work with a lot of kids.

Chris Burres: Mm.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So a lot of PD brain injuries, autism, neurodevelopmental-type things, you name it. Obviously we work with adults too, but, so I, I mean, there's no reason to have a ki- not to have a kid take this. Any, and I know you can't make suggestions as a manufacturer, any anecdotal evidence coming back of, you know, "Hey, I give my kid this much," or...

Chris Burres: I'll be honest, and, and you know this, right? So early-

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah ...

Chris Burres: pregnant, nursing kids- Of course

don't.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah.

Chris Burres: I have given it to my kids, not on a regular basis, but like my, I mentioned, I think earlier, my son is under the weather. Have you, like, doubled up? on your My BattleC, right? Mm-hmm. So I, I, you know, I'm, but I'm in the position like you where I can assess the da- data- Yes ... assess the risk.

General recommendation is no. I don't really have any testimonials specific to children, pro- probably because, you know, our, our, our kind of stance is no. But you know, we c- we can talk about- I'll

Dr. Brandon Crawford: be giving you some.

Chris Burres: Huh?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I'll be giving you some feedback.

Chris Burres: Okay.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Please. Yeah. 'Cause it makes sense, right?

It, it really does. So, so many of our patients struggle at the mitochondrial level. They're inflamed, they're toxic, right? So whatever that is this- That, that's

Chris Burres: a lot of what the lasers are doing, right? Absolutely. Like, you're speaking to the mitochondria. Absolutely. Like, that might even be the right word.

Yeah,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: there... I mean, there's definitely most likely a synergistic effect here- Mm-hmm ... right, in regards to photomedicine and ESS60. It, it makes sense to me. So like I said, I'll... I, I do want to start recommending this to patients. And again, I as a clinician can do that. Yep. So I, I know, you know, your stance and what your stance has to be, so I'll be giving you some feedback on that.

Okay. Yeah. Very cool. Absolutely.

Chris Burres: Well, and we'll- get some supplied to you so you can play around with it.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. We're, that, trust me, we're gonna talk off-camera. Okay, so any topic we haven't covered, anything you wanna tell the world that we haven't gone into?

Chris Burres: Well, so, we'll, we will give a landing page, and there is one thing so kind of two things i- in prep for, like, what they might find on the landing page.

One, people ask, "What might I experience on the product?" Right? Like, you do, "Am I gonna no- notice it on day one? What does that look like?" We think of it in terms of, like, a three-month process that has a lot of parallels with our consistent testimonial of taking it in the morning, mental focus and energy during the day, and then better sleep that night.

So month one really is focus and energy. There's one testimonial that I lean on. We got some product to an influencer. She took the product, sent in her video from that evening, and pointed out that she didn't finish her cup of coffee. Now, if you're a coffee drinker- That's a big deal ... this is a big deal, right?

Yeah. Like, yeah, w- i- if I ever end up you know, at the end of the day where I've got most of my coffee, I'm like, "That's a weird day," right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Exactly.

Chris Burres: I used to be a two to three cup of coffee per day person. I'm now more like it's the ritual mostly. Mm-hmm. And, and I'll be honest, it's the ritual associated with taking the product that I'm worried about messing with.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Mm-hmm.

Chris Burres: When I first started taking this in 2018, if I got to, say, 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon and felt like I needed another cup of coffee or a nap, I could always look back and I hadn't taken the product that

Dr. Brandon Crawford: day. Gotcha.

Chris Burres: Right? So I don't wanna mess with that piece. I, I have another reason, and I'll probably talk about that, kind of related to headaches.

So month one is focus and energy. Month two is really sleep, and I really think it's happening in month one, but everybody gets a little bit, unless you're Bryan Johnson, right? Like, everyone gets a little bit more or less sleep every day, and so- Mm-hmm ... to equate the improvement in sleep to this product, having started this product, can, can take about two months.

I lean on, my business coach shared that he used to for 50 years need an alarm clock to wake up. As soon as he started taking this, is waking up before the alarm clock. And, you know, he's got late night mixers, late night dinners. None of that matters, unless he doesn't get the product for about 10 days, and then he starts to need the alarm clock again, which coincides in the literature.

We believe this gets out of your system in about 10 days.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Wow.

a, that's a long half-life.

Chris Burres: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay.

Chris Burres: Yeah. And, you know, i- interesting about, I lost my train of thought. Sorry We'll, we'll go to... No, no, it w- that was me. We'll go to month three. And this is where, again, if you're reducing the negative impact of stressed mitochondria, it's just really b- and you know, it's really powerful testimonials that we can't share, right?

We're not allowed to share. Yeah. We gotta go in and do all this research. The exa- kind of the broader example I'll give is my father-in-law was walking with a cane, and at about the three-month mark, stopped using the cane, started walking further, right? You walk further, you will lose weight. Mm. So the weight loss, not because of our product, but because of this walking.

And that kind of represents the systemic benefits that I'm, that I'm able to share. So that's kind of the three-month timeframe.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay.

Chris Burres: And then this cosmetic,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, we haven't talked about that ...

Chris Burres: I will share with this, the Boulder Longevity Institute, their team came up to our our booth at A4M, and, and there's a little bit of hyperbole, but they were basically like, "Hey, Chris, that opportunity to live longer, get that out of the way."

"That opportunity to live healthier, get that out of the way. I'm here for your skin re-do set."

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, that sounds about right. Right? Huge market right now.

Chris Burres: Yeah,

Dr. Brandon Crawford: yeah. I mean, always has been, but is growing exponentially. Packaging's great. Thank you. I, I love your packaging,

Chris Burres: honestly. it's a two-parter. Yeah.

So we did this very intentionally. At one point, my director of research came to me and said, "Hey, I found this peptide. It's got 50 years of skin and hair improvement and peer-reviewed published research. You should look at it." And I looked at it, and I was like- ... like, "We need to do a product with this." We call that peptide UTH 29, which stands for youth 29.

Turns out 29- Okay ... is the age all women want to stop aging at. There's enough sophistication- My wife

Dr. Brandon Crawford: says 27, but-

Chris Burres: 27, okay. So two years, we'll have to change the name. We'll, we'll get her a different box. So, so youth 29. It's a peptide, though. Peptides are water-soluble.

Yeah. The ESS60 molecule is oil-soluble. We could have shoved them together with an emulsifier, right? Like, that's a standard practice. Don't like how emulsifiers sound, and if you Google them, there are only health detractions with emulsifiers, so we wanted to leave that out. So really you do, like, one squirt of the UTH 29 lotion, two drops of the ESS60 activator per squirt, and you activate it real time in your hand and then, you know, apply it to things that might show aging.

Okay. Which

Dr. Brandon Crawford: seems- And that's at night or in the morning?

Chris Burres: That's at night.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay. Yeah.

Chris Burres: I, I... You can use it either way, right? Mm-hmm. But and I actually prefer, it got into my schedule in the morning, so it's not gonna change.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Cool. All right. Fantastic. I mean, hey, I'm all for it. I'm starting to show some signs, so I mean, hey, there you go.

I was actually asking my wife, like, "Hey, what can I do about this?" I didn't like her response. I'm, I'm not a sunscreen guy. Hmm. I mean, being a light guy, I just can't, but- you know, that was the first thing. She's like, "You gotta start wearing sunscreen." I'm like, "Well, I'm not gonna do that."

Chris Burres: Yeah.

what's plan B?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, exactly. And then of course she has, you know, all these thoughts. She's really great with skin.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So I'm gonna definitely bring this to her. I'm gonna use it myself. So that's, that's amazing. Well, very cool, man. Very interesting conversation.

Phenomenal product. I'm very, very intrigued. So you mentioned the, the landing page. Any, so anything else that you wanna tell the world? I'm gonna sign off here soon, but- Yeah ... I think you did a phenomenal job here.

Chris Burres: Th- thank you so much. So on the landing page, which is gonna be myvitalc.com/crawford.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Cool.

Chris Burres: Right? They, couple things to walk you through. So I was lucky, or I put together a longevity summit interglute- interviewed 57 experts in longevity, including Dave Asprey, Ben Greenfield Dr. Steven Gundry, and I compiled their kinda tips. I asked all of them for tips, and I compiled the tips into 18 biohacking tips.

So on that landing page, for their e- email and their name, we'll give that, we'll get that 18 biohacking tips. Nice. So that's free. We do have an offer as you go down the page for the f- the four-ounce olive oil. That's our recommended product. Mm-hmm. And it's a two, three, six offer. There's a 40% discount on the six, right?

We're discounting it heavily for you. That's not available on our website. It's available on that landing page. The thought process is, hey, this is a three-month experience. Mm-hmm. With six bottles you could like use three for you and maybe give it to somebody who also should have the three-month experience, or you could be like me, I would just keep all six.

I'm like- And then a little bit further down we have the same type of offer, two, three, six, including the four ounce and the skin redo set, right? Okay. We call that the inside out, like, well, I feel great on the inside, and you wanna, you wanna make sure- Yeah ... you look great on the outside. And there is a $30 coupon, good for just those specials, also on that page.

So you gotta go to that page to get that $30 coupon. And then finally, I did write this book, Live Longer and Better: Your Journey to Living Longer and Better Has Never Been More Achievable Than Today. And it's the history of the molecule, et cetera. The book's available on Amazon for $19.99. It's available on that landing page for $19.99.

For 10 extra dollars, I'll autograph the book. 100% of that autograph fee goes to Operation Underground Railroad. So you may remember a great movie called The Sound of Freedom. Mm-hmm. An amazing movie about a horrible topic, which is child exploitation. Mm-hmm. Operation Underground Railroad is doing a great job.

That's who the movie is about, is doing a great job getting that off of our planet. So 100% of that signature fee goes to Operation Underground Railroad.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's amazing. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah, I actually have a, a friend that I went to- school with, she actually started a nonprofit helping get kids out of that industry.

Chris Burres: Yeah.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It's quite dismal, but-

Chris Burres: Yeah ...

Dr. Brandon Crawford: thank you for that. I mean, very, very generous offers that you guys are making for the audience. So everyone I hope you've enjoyed learning more about this amazing product. ESS60 is definitely in my arsenal from now moving forward, not just for life extension, but because I understand the benefits of protecting my mitochondria and how that has implication with my brain, with my heart, with my entire being.

So everyone, if this information interests you, if you really enjoyed this conversation, please like, subscribe, do all the things. But also, if you know someone that could benefit from this information, please share this with them. And like Chris was saying there's some great offers here, so check out that landing page and give this stuff a try.

I mean, it sounds like there's really no reason not to, unless you just wanna die sooner or have more inflammation- ... which I guess is your prerogative, and that's okay, too. But you're probably not listening if that's you. So again, Chris, thank you so much for your time today. I have really enjoyed this.

Chris Burres: And Dr. Crawford, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: We hope today's episode has inspired you to take that next step toward your best self. Remember, the path to longevity is paved with small daily decisions. Your journey is unique, and every step, every choice brings you closer to your ultimate vision of a healthier, happier life. For more insights, tips, and resources, visit drbrandoncrawford.com.